ActivityPub: The "Worse Is Better" Approach to Federated Social Networking https://blog.dereferenced.org/activitypub-the-worse-is-better-approach-to-federated-social-networking
@kaniini There are a couple of good points in here, but this is a really cynical take on AP.
I'd agree it has some blindspots that need to be addressed, but lines such as "In an ideal world, the number of ActivityPub implementations would be zero." is pure hyperbole.
Further I would give it more deference if it presented a viable option as opposed to "this is bad, but I don't know how to do it better"
We gotta do better than this if we are to push forward.
@jalcine Aight, cool. Hopefully will get better because this isn't a great start.
There are some salient points about security that I absolutely agree with, but most of it just seems like editorializing.
I'd rather see problems identified and then explorations of possible ways to improve.
But I guess they're saving that for later. I hope.
Yeah I know. I just think that's a poor way of going about it.
The proliferation of AP is providing a real opportunity for us to not only think about how we communicate but more effective ways to do it, a couple of which you name, which is cool.
I'm so down w/ the protocol being changed in a way that makes it better, but saying we shouldn't be using it at all is step backwards.
Cool. I'll wait for that. I really want to see viable options. Especially if they work
@sean @kaniini @jalcine AP is popular because it's simple and it works. I absolutely agree the design isn't perfect because it does have some gaping holes, but as a protocol framework, it's really solid.
I say we build on that rather than lamenting the fact an imperfect idea is getting traction.
With all of these big brains floating around the fediverse, I know we can do better than 'this is bad, but I don't know the answer'.
This is such an opportunity to set a positive tone moving forward.
This. The challenge of federation is social, not technical. It's a much better situation to have an imperfect protocol that everyone uses than to endlessly iterate - every fork of the shared protocol splinters the network and gets us further away from the dream of an open, connected web.
@sean @kaniini @jalcine
Sure, but what are the chances that competing protocols will actually maintain compatibility with each other? The web is built on a stack of shared protocols - imagine if every website didn't use HTTP! ActivityPub is a 90% solution, and I think the last 10% can be built on top of it without breaking compatibility.
@jdormit @jalcine @Are0h @sean @kaniini I think AP is under-specced primarily due to constraints impose by W3C (time and otherwise) and a desire to formally pin down as much as possible while Mastodon was ploughing ahead with its implementation to minimize the risk of it rolling out too many bad ideas ad-hoc. I think Chris (Webber, co-editor of AP) is aware of the gaps and interested in seeing them filled. For example mentioning OCAP here: https://dustycloud.org/blog/spritely/
I agree Mastodon itself has shown good restraint in only causing "minor damage" considering its out sized influence. That said Eugen seemed to be a bit of a catalyst in pulling such advice out of Social CG. It's good and bad in different ways.
Chris is this deep thinker and I think tried to make sure AP was flexible enough to address future concerns, but is the antithesis of Eugen who forges ahead to scratch itches. @kaniini seems to provide balance.
@msh @jdormit @jalcine @sean And just to piggy back on this comment, if it turns out that what Masto is becoming is not conducive to the changes that need to be made to AP, I will abandon it in a _heartbeat_.
Popularity shouldn't be the defining factor of the what the protocol should be. Stability and security has gotta be at the core of it. That's something I hard agree with @kaniini on
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